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Author Topic: Obama's gun laws  (Read 4397 times)

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Offline Hammer (Avi)

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Obama's gun laws
« on: January 20, 2013, 03:03:36 PM »
I'm curious what you guys think about Obama's new gun regulations.  I have read through them and most of them make good sense.  The majority deal with improving back round checks and the transfer of information to the govt from Doctors, and other agencies.  Also, allowing the ATF to do it's job, I saw a report that said that something like 90% of criminals get firearms from 1% of the shops.  If that is the case wouldn't it make sense to shut those shops down?  Also, I like the fact that they want to make funds available to train first responders and school officials in dealing with these situations.  What I would also like to see is mandating that schools allow school officials to CC.  Here is the list
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fangars

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2013, 04:54:39 PM »
First thing we all have to realize is who Obama is and what it is he wants.
He is not a fan of the Constitution, especially the first two amendments.

Once you know what his end game is you can pretty much expect that his orders are written to look good on the surface, but when you start seeing how they will be implemented, that is when you will see the erosive effects on our liberties.

If I had the time to enumerate each executive order and detail exactly how each will go deliberately wrong for the people I would but I have to get back out there and weld.

paintsnow

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2013, 08:02:51 PM »
Fangers, I wish I could carry a little mini you around to debate liberals when they try to challenge me! So much knowledge and sense comes from your posts.

Fangers for President!!!

Offline AZXterra410

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 08:06:30 PM »
I couldn't care less tbh.

And yes I own a gun.

Offline AZXterra410

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2013, 08:07:15 PM »
To expand on that I will state what I tell people all the time. How has this changed your life?

Answer is - It hasn't because nothing has changed yet.

So everyone calm down

Offline sunny1881

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2013, 08:20:12 PM »
^ True, but what may happen and may be passed into federal law can and will affect the whole country. So when do you fight it? After the fact after it is passed into law? Ahh, no, thats not a very good strategy, much harder to change laws that already exist then to change them before they are passed and implemented to begin with.

Offline Hammer (Avi)

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2013, 09:00:42 PM »
First thing we all have to realize is who Obama is and what it is he wants.
He is not a fan of the Constitution, especially the first two amendments.

Once you know what his end game is you can pretty much expect that his orders are written to look good on the surface, but when you start seeing how they will be implemented, that is when you will see the erosive effects on our liberties.

If I had the time to enumerate each executive order and detail exactly how each will go deliberately wrong for the people I would but I have to get back out there and weld.

I think this is a fairly biased argument to make, to twist everything around until it suits your individual political beliefs.  The general fear that, because he is liberal means he is coming for my guns seems unfounded and unfair.  Next you'll start talking about his reverend 20 years ago or his birth certificate.

I think I could make a much stronger argument that president Bush deteriorated our individual liberties much more then Obama ever will, but lets put that aside.  If you look at the text, as it has been written, to me it looks like pretty standard and forthcoming.       
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Offline AZXterra410

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2013, 09:09:32 PM »
Cant we just work out a system to keep track of guns better? Make it harder to get em, make them be registered to individuals...

paintsnow

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2013, 09:13:48 PM »
The fed .gov has been screwing the pooch for a long time now.

And its not just gun control.

Banning magazines...people say it doesn't infringe/disarm you, but mags are meant to be wear items/disposable. It would be like banning clutches and torque converters and saying they are not infringing your use of vehicles, and that they can still be passed down. Until the market dries up and the ones in existence break and wear down. Why is it that 10 is the magic number for rifles, but shotguns are limited to 5?

Offline Hammer (Avi)

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2013, 09:20:10 PM »
I certainly don't agree with a lot of the stuff Jon Stewart is saying but he did a bit about how the ATF has been stripped of it's ability to enforce any laws by a Congressman who added a rider into a budgetary document.  That Congressman then got an award from the NRA and now the NRA's argument against gun control is that we need to enforce the laws already on the books.  So, politics as usual.   
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Offline AZXterra410

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2013, 09:46:39 PM »
The magazine argument is a dumb one... Large magazines are more cumbersome and it takes what...3 seconds to drop a mag and put a new one in? So boo hoo, just get 2 10 round mags instead of 1 twenty...

Offline Hammer (Avi)

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2013, 09:56:28 PM »
The argument that they will have trouble changing mags is just weak sauce.  Usually these guys have back packs full of ammo. 
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paintsnow

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2013, 02:03:20 AM »
The magazine argument is a dumb one... Large magazines are more cumbersome and it takes what...3 seconds to drop a mag and put a new one in? So boo hoo, just get 2 10 round mags instead of 1 twenty...

The point is they are slowly etching away at our freedoms. Next it will be 7, then 5, then 3, and finally 1.

The laws are pointless, and as you said, it does not take long to reload, actually closer to .5 second, so why waste budget on pointless laws. Maybe it would be better to focus on things that might actually make a difference.

fangars

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2013, 10:05:19 PM »

First thing we all have to realize is who Obama is and what it is he wants.
He is not a fan of the Constitution, especially the first two amendments.

Once you know what his end game is you can pretty much expect that his orders are written to look good on the surface, but when you start seeing how they will be implemented, that is when you will see the erosive effects on our liberties.

If I had the time to enumerate each executive order and detail exactly how each will go deliberately wrong for the people I would but I have to get back out there and weld.

I think this is a fairly biased argument to make, to twist everything around until it suits your individual political beliefs.  The general fear that, because he is liberal means he is coming for my guns seems unfounded and unfair.  Next you'll start talking about his reverend 20 years ago or his birth certificate.

I think I could make a much stronger argument that president Bush deteriorated our individual liberties much more then Obama ever will, but lets put that aside.  If you look at the text, as it has been written, to me it looks like pretty standard and forthcoming.       

It's not twisting anything, it is no great mystery who Obama is, no mystery in what he believes and you can go back yourself and see how he votes on such issues as personal liberties.

I hardly care for the horse race between two big government creeps like Bush and Obama as far as who has eroded more liberties, but those that were eroded by Bush, are not being restored by Obama. I submit that Obama is carrying on Bush's legacy like no other president would.

Facts are facts and you can look back at what how he has performed on the personal liberties without worrying about your own or my political views, Obamas history speaks for itself. You can look at the people he surrounds himself with, and what their beliefs are and actions have been. How the executive orders are written now may or may not have any resemblance to the actual implementation.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 10:08:15 PM by fangars »

Offline Hammer (Avi)

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Re: Obama's gun laws
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2013, 11:03:03 PM »
I am not trying to debate in regards to what you think he will do based on a so called history of facts.  As you say the facts speak for themselves and Obama had not made a single move to further enforce gun laws or better regulate gun ownership until this most recent event.  However, the NRA has been claiming that he has been working against gun ownership, claiming he would come and take your guns away since before he won the primaries.  With no evidence to back up these claims.  This is standard politics and fear mongering.  Since this is the first measure Obama has made in regards to gun laws, I find it hard to believe that anyone knows what his plans are unless you just got done talking with him about it.  The reality is that I am very curious to see how this goes.  I would like to see the ATF doing its job, I would like to see armed guards in schools, and I would like to see teachers trained to carry and use firearms.  As much as I hate to say it, it has been the NRA and the Republican party that has blocked these things from happening up till now.  So no, I'm not scared that anyone will ever come and take my gun away, but I would like to see it managed better.       
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